Okay, real quick.
I'm Jacob Rushfinn founder of Botsi and
the host of the Price Power Podcast.
Today, we're talking with Andrey
Shakhtin CEO of FunnelFox, about web
subscriptions, web funnels, MVPs for your
funnel, payment risks, and so much more.
All right, let's get back into it
Jacob: Hey, Andre.
Really happy to have you on the podcast
Andrey Shakhtin: Hi, Jacob.
Uh, yes, thank you for having me.
Really excited to, to be here
Jacob: I'm excited to chat.
Um, so, you know, we're, we're gonna
chat a lot about kinda web subscriptions
and web funnels and web to app.
Uh, but before FunnelFox, you,
you were running growth at
Simple, which is part of Palta.
You, you were at Vivid
Money and Muse Group.
Can you just tell me a little about
your journey to getting into the app
growth world, and then, then how you
kind of came to, to building FunnelFox?
Okay, real quick.
I'm Jacob Rushfinn, founder of Botsi
and the host of the Price Power Podcast.
Today, we're talking with Andrey
Shakhtin, CEO of FunnelFox, about web
subscriptions, web funnels, MVPs for your
funnel, payment risks, and so much more.
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah, I've been
working with, uh, mobile apps
since, um, 2010 probably, so it's
like f- uh, 16 years already.
Yeah, I started my journey as a,
like, a technical guy, so I, uh,
uh, wrote the code and, um, uh,
develop, um, uh, apps and, um,
working on, like, technical stuff.
Then I switched to, uh, product managers
and, uh, uh, working on monetization
part and growth of, uh, apps.
And, uh, so yeah, probably I, um, um, I
touched each aspect of mobile apps from
development to, uh, to user acquisition
and to monetization and marketing.
Yeah
Jacob: Gotcha.
And so how did, um, from, from kind of
your app growth journey, how did you
come to, to FunnelFox and, and that idea?
Were you, were you working on kind
of web subscription areas, uh,
before, uh, uh, before FunnelFox?
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah, w-we, um, I used
to work, uh, on, um, web-based user
acquisition and web-based monetization.
Um, back in, uh, 20, uh, 18, in
Muse Group, we had a, um, uh, quite
significant, uh, volume of revenue that,
uh, coming from web, uh, web channels.
Uh, so we, uh, we built, um,
different, uh, onboardings and funnels
for, uh, for different segments
and, uh, so working on that, uh,
um, very pretty, pretty actively.
And, um, then in 2021, when, um, Apple
released IDFA restriction, um, more
and more companies start exploring,
uh, web to app with the, like,
landing pages just for attribution.
And then it, uh, evolved to, uh, like
web-to-web funnels with the, uh, selling
subscription right on the web, with the
web paywalls and, uh, all the, the, the,
like, the whole web, web experience.
And it started growing and, um, I, um, I
had a consultancy practice as well, and,
uh, had, uh, some companies and, uh, um,
and consultancy and, um, they need to
grow, uh, uh, and quickly and cheaper.
And they, like, they all end up with
a, with a, like, um, recommendation to
build a funnel, but it's, it's quiteâ¦
It used to be, like, difficult
thing because you need to, uh, you
needed to have a, like, a different,
uh, s- team with different stack.
And it's, uh, basically it looks
like you, you need to, to build,
like, a s- different product
with different infrastructure.
So this is, uh, how I, uh, came up with
the idea to build FunnelFox, because I,
I, uh, I knew how to build this product
and, uh, what, what to build, uh, what
the minimum product should be, uh, to
start selling it and start helping, uh,
such companies, uh, to grow on the web.
Jacob: Uh, yeah, that, that makes sense
where you were, you were doing a bu- bunch
of this kind of manual building first,
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: the, the, there's, there's a
huge need for, for a better solution
in the market today, uh, to kind
of drive, drive better growth.
Uh, and got it.
That makes a lot of
sense, and it's, it'sâ¦
it sounds, you know, a bit similar to
my journey where I started, you know,
I worked in apps for a while, I did
consulting for a bit, and then, you
know, from my, what I learned in my
consulting working with lots of apps,
goes, "Hey, there's, there, there's
so- there could be something better.
There's, there's a need for a
better product in the market."
So that
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: of sense.
Um, okay.
So, you know, we wanna, we wanna
some advice on, on apps, on how
to get started with web to app.
Like, I, I think there's been, um, you
know, on LinkedIn, on X, everyone's,
"Hey, you need to do web subscriptions.
You need to test this out."
And I, I, I guess it'sâ¦
if, if we, if we wanna give advice, uh,
for, for how to actually test out web
subscriptions or web to app for the first
time, what do you think is this, like,
minimum viable experience, experiment for
an app to, to test and kind of validate?
Andrey Shakhtin: Mm-hmm.
Um, yeah, it's, um, it works better, uh,
when you already have, um, uh, process
of, uh, user acquisition in place, which
means that you have, uh, some volume, uh,
that you running on Meta, TikTok, or, uh,
I don't know, uh, Upload now, for example.
Yeah, and, uh, which means that you have
some creatives that you already tested,
and you, uh, have a, like, you have
a, like, some kind of, like, idea what
works for you, for your audience and,
and what audience of, of your product.
And you have a process of testing
creatives, uh, in place also, and
your team, uh, some kind of, like,
experience with the, with this process.
It increases chances of, uh, that, uh,
that web to app, uh, will succeed for
you, uh, very, uh, very, very much.
And so the first thing that you need to
do, you, you just need to take your best,
uh, top performance of creatives that
you have in, um, uh, in, in app funnel,
tested it for web funnel, and build a
web funnel, uh, with a, like, I don't
know, minimum, um, minimum iterations.
Um, how to do that?
You just need to, um, um, discover,
uh, the market, what works, uh,
what the, like, um, similar or,
like, direct competitors do with,
uh, with this, uh, user acquisition
and, uh, with the web funnels.
And, uh, just, uh, try to copy that
for test and/or just get inspired and
adapt it to your, to your product.
And this is, like, the best thing,
and don't reinvent the wheel
here and, uh, just, uh, take
the best practice on the market.
There are a lot of, uh, uh, mirror
boards or some collections of the, like,
screens of the web funnels, screens of
paywalls or charts in the, in social
media, in, uh, LinkedIn, for example.
So, uh, just, uh, try to, uh, find
these, uh, materials and, uh, use
it for, uh, for building the funnel.
Uh, just copy different, different,
uh, approaches, different mechanics.
Um, yeah, and I think this is the, like,
um, this is the first steps, and just
run, try to run some campaigns with, uh,
I don't know, 200, uh, ad spend budget
daily and, uh, test carefully, accurately,
and, uh, scale what works for you.
Yeah
Jacob: Got it.
Yeah, and so if you're, if you're
shifting over some of your budget or
adding budget to kind of $200 a day,
what, um, what does that mean for where
you should be from a user acquisition
perspective before you test out?
Like, what, what, what foundations
or what kind of a, a level of growth
or spend should you have before
you should try to test this out?
Because it's probably not a, it's
probably not the first thing you do.
You probably, like you say, you,
you've, you have built a product that
is somewhat successful, you're driving
some growth, and now you wanna expand.
W- where do you, where do you see as
kind of a, a threshold where, hey, now it
may make sense to, to launch this test?
Andrey Shakhtin: Basically, you can start,
uh, from zero, uh, if you have experience
before, uh, of, uh, user acquisition.
Uh, but we, um, we target to, to
like, to customers, for example,
with, uh, like, uh, at least
50K, um, MRR or ad spend monthly.
So which means that, uh, uh, the team
already, uh, has some- something working
for them and, uh, trying to find, yeah.
Yeah, but, but basically we, we
have, uh, also, uh, some cases
when, um, the teams started with
zero, even without any product.
They just start, uh, launching web
funnels to validate the idea what
product they need to b- need to build.
Uh, and they, uh, for example, they
discover that, like, this, in this niche,
uh, working very good and, um, growing
right now, for example, like health and
fitness or, uh, language learning app,
and j- and they, they just like, uh,
trying to, uh, to test funnels without
product for these niches and, uh, um,
to validate what, uh, what niche, uh,
works better for them and, uh, they
start scaling that and, uh, then, uh,
do the, uh, mobile app for this niche.
So this is also like a good approach, yeah
Jacob: that's a good insight
because I think the, you know, most
people think or, or, or the common
advice is, "Okay, you've scaled up,
you've built a successful product.
Now maybe scale up further
with web subscriptions."
But I guess it is if you can build
this web funnel much easier, put some
level of ad spend and put some level
of traffic, see if you can validate
are people willing to buy this?
Is the value proposition there?
And so
Andrey Shakhtin: Of course
Jacob: that's, that's actually pretty
good advice that I think most people
don't think about as a faster way to test
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah.
Yeah.
And I always, uh, say that like,
uh, uh, web funnel shouldn't be
like the, the only one, uh, growth
channel or user acquisition channel.
So you need to diversify it.
So you need some organic, um, um,
direct to app, uh, campaigns as well.
So you like cover like 360 channels.
Yeah.
Jacob: Yeah
Andrey Shakhtin: but the web funnels
is, uh, is a good, um, uh, go-to
strategy for, for the, for the very
beginning because you have a, a very
accurate attribution because you
don't have like, uh, IDFA restrictions
and, uh, attribution problems.
You, you basically can attribute
each purchase, each, uh, action
of user to exact creative.
So you can easily in-- uh, understand
what the, what the approach for
creatives, uh, works for, for you in
terms of like, in terms of purchases.
Yeah.
And, uh, so you can scale it,
and you can go deeper and deeper.
So you can, for example, identify your
segments that, um, I don't know, uh,
triggers on like this message in, in,
uh, in, uh, in the creatives, and you can
understand it by like exact like numbers.
So we have a like, for example, 100
purchases from, from this creative.
Oh, wow, it's work.
It works.
We, we need to, to, to, uh, to scale
it with the different variations of
these creatives and, and, and et cetera.
So it's, uh, it's a really like,
uh, flexible and powerful, um,
approach to validate the idea and
to validate the, the, the product.
Yeah.
Jacob: And then even if you have, you
can take those winning creatives to your
web campaigns then take them to your
app campaigns as well, and so it can
be, you know, the, the same creative
should be kind of, uh, uh, validated.
But you don't have those same
insights on the app campaign side in
terms of the specific creatives, the
specific ads that are working well.
So it, so it can be
complement to kind of both,
Andrey Shakhtin: They,
they're they're, not, uh, interchangeable,
uh, usually, but you canâ¦
But yeah, but starting with, uh, like
top performers that you have in, in
app campaigns is, uh, like, is, is
better than, uh, starting from zero.
So if y- if something works for, uh, for
in-app campaigns, it makes sense to start
with that and, uh, then, uh, figure out
what, what works for, for web campaigns.
It could beâ¦
Jacob: that they're gonna
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah
Jacob: always take one and, and it,
it's not a guarantee that it's gonna
Andrey Shakhtin: Yes.
Yes, it could be because
it's a different audience.
Jacob: Yeah
Andrey Shakhtin: different channels
can tap different audience, so
different audience, uh, uh, could be
triggered by different, different, uh,
creatives and messages and creatives.
Yeah
Jacob: Got it Got it Yeah yeah
Got it.
Got it.
So we, we, um, if you have a product,
you know, and you're doing about
50K month, take 10% of your budget,
a web funnel that seems to work for
some other people, test it out, and
see if you can make that successful,
and test and iterate and iterate.
But also, if you are, have a new
product idea, you know, you may
need to have a little cash in the
bank to be able to drive some paid
UA, uh, uh, to that to validate.
But the, the, the web funnels can be a,
a very fast and lightweight approach to
validate that your idea is a good one
before you go build a whole product behind
it, which is gonna take a lot longer.
And then it's better to learn first
that your product idea is bad, uh,
before you build it, uh, uh, ver-
versus after you try to test it.
So I, I think those, those are
pretty good insights for people.
Um, and so thinking about, you know, a-
as people try to expand from, um, from
traditional app campaigns to, to web
monetization, h- how is it different?
How, how is kind of the web
subscriptions purchases, uh, different
from kind of in-app purchases?
Is itâ¦
Do you basically have to drive it,
drive traffic through ac- through
paid user acquisition to web?
I feel like on, on the app side,
there's, um, there's a lot more
organic traffic that's possible.
This is not as possible on web.
Yeah, how, how does this
kind of monetization differ?
Andrey Shakhtin: Um, yeah, uh,
monetization is different, uh, indeed,
and, um, it, it could be also, could be
different, uh, for organic traffic, uh,
and paid traffic within web, web funnels.
So it could be like-- and even like, like
for-- it could be different, uh, different
funnels for, for different channels.
So you, you, uh, you can have, for
example, short-term bor- onboarding
and, uh, like, uh, more, um, lighter,
uh, let's say that monetization in, for
organic traffic and more, um, aggressive
monetization for paid traffic because
you need to, uh, uh, uh, you need to
like to have a shorter payback for,
for, uh, for, uh, paid user acquisition.
And compared, uh, to in-app monetization,
it's different because, for example,
in, in web, uh, free trials is not so
common and they work, uh, not very well.
Uh, the second thing, like the, the
main thing that you need to, uh, take
care of the, the whole payment stack.
Uh, and, um, it also like, uh, impacts
monetization very, very well, very
much because you need to take care
of refunds, disputes, chargebacks.
So, um, you need to balance
between like, um, aggressiveness
of, uh, how you, uh, monetize your
app and, uh, uh, risk metrics.
And so it's, it's more flexible in,
on web funnels for you because you,
you cannot control it in, uh, in,
in app, uh, uh, in app monetization.
And we, we did the research, and we
recently, um, released the, uh, the first
ever like report of, uh, state of web,
web to app subscriptions and where we
analyzed, uh, numbers, uh, and compared
them like web funnel and web, web-based
monetization and, uh, app monetization.
We found that LTV in web, uh,
in web monetization is higher.
So for example, for annual
subscription is twice higher.
And for, uh, monthly subscription, I, I
don't remember exact, the exact number,
but it's like at least 50%, uh, uh,
higher LTV in, in web subscriptions.
Uh, which is like
Jacob: that, why do you think that is?
Andrey Shakhtin: Um, because it's,
um, uh, it, it, it connects with
the, with the audience, of course.
It's not for the all, uh, for all product,
but, um, historically, um, web funnels
and the, the, and the weapon bonding as in
form of quiz, uh, usually targeted mostly
on, on, uh, older audience, and older
audience has a higher willingness to pay.
Uh, is the first thing.
The second thing is that you can
control, uh, take fu- full control
of, uh, subscription retention, so
you can design, um, a boarding flow,
like cancellation funnel, yeah?
And you can control-- because you can
control payment stack, you can, uh,
configure, like, uh, revenue recovery
things for failed transactions.
Uh, so it's really flexible and
powerful, um, uh, approach how
you can manage your monetization.
But it's, it has a, like, drawback
that you need to take care of that, so
you need to configure all the stuff.
But, um, we at, at FunnelFox, for
example, we can-- we, we help with
that, uh, of course, and, uh, but, uh,
it's quite complicated things, yeah.
And the second thing that we found
that, uh, the conversion rate
also twice higher in web funnel,
uh, compared to in app funnel.
And it's a interesting, um, observation
because, um, it, it, it, it surprised
me a lot when, when we discovered that
because, um, um, I was under impression
fr-from their works, from their, uh,
more recent, uh, researches like two
years ago that, like, conversion should
be the same, should be the same level.
Um, and by conversion, I mean that
the, the, the whole funnel conversion
from, uh, from ad click, from
impression, uh, to, uh, to purchase.
So like the, the, the whole funnel.
And we found that, um- Uh, that
flexibility of web funnels and web
paywalls, uh, gives you, like, the
higher conversion rate and the, the,
at the very beginning, there, there
is a friction in, in app funnel with
the, like, app downloading because,
like, the flow looks like this.
So, um, user sees the, uh, ad in, uh,
Instagram or Facebook, for example, click
on that and end it up on a app store page.
And it's not personalized, it's not,
like, interactive, and there is a,
like, step where user need to decide,
uh, if they, uh, want to install this
application or not, and it's a, like,
big friction for users who are not,
like, warmed up enough to do that.
In web funnel, you just can click
on the ad, end it up on a, like, um,
web page and, like, immediately start
en- engaging in, uh, in, um, into,
like, web quiz and web onboarding.
It inc- increases conversion very well
Jacob: Yeah.
And, and so I guess you're saying when
you look at, um, ad click to purchase on
web versus ad click to purchase on mobile,
the, the, the web actually looks higher.
um, most people maybe, and this is
where the, the kind of difference in
metrics, most people look at install
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: on mobile.
But really, if you look at the whole
funnel, it ends up being higher on web
Andrey Shakhtin: Yes
Jacob: you've already filtered out
a lot of the lower intent people and
lost people who didn't install the app.
Andrey Shakhtin: Mm-hmm.
Jacob: Um,
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: so, so that, that makes sense.
I would also imagine that, like you're
saying, that there, there might be some
also bias because a lot more larger
apps and more sophisticated media
buyers and sophisticated teams are
doing web funnels today, where theâ¦
I feel like there's a lot of, a
lot of small apps, um, and fewer
small apps are doing web funnels.
And so maybe there's just some,
some-- The, the people using web
kind of funnels, they are a bit more
sophisticated, leading to higher
conversion because they understand
better what's, what's kind of going on.
But it leads to that flexibility
where they're able to do that.
They're
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: kind of make those customizations
and flexibility, so it's interesting.
One
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: mentioned I think, thought
was, I, I wanted to ask more about
was, um, different funnels for
organic traffic versus paid traffic.
Do you see a lot of, um, see a
lot of people doing that today,
or, or is it more successful?
W- when does that make sense?
Is there a certain spend level that
you, you-- it makes sense to kind
of break that up, or a-a-and how,
how do you see that being done well?
Andrey Shakhtin: So yeah, m-majority
of, uh, app developers, they're
running traffic from, from paid,
uh, channels, of course, like.
But there are some companies that
are like using also organic traffic.
It could be, uh, just search traffic or,
uh, direct traffic, uh, to the website.
So, and, uh, users can like start quiz
on an onboarding, uh, from the website.
It, it also works very well, well.
And back in like 20, uh, 2018, when
I started w-working on, uh, web,
uh, web monetization, it was likeâ¦
It, it wasn't paid traffic.
It was, uh, just, uh, search traffic
that we, uh, converted to, uh, uh, web
onboarding and web, web subscriptions
Jacob: Got it.
And, and so, but in terms of the,
you know, you were talking about more
aggressive monetization tactics for
paid traffic because you have higher
kind of costs, but maybe less aggressive
monetization funnels for organic traffic.
Like, tell me about h- like the
tactics you see people doing there
Andrey Shakhtin: Uh, yeah.
So for example, like, um, I mentioned
that, uh, for example, free trial,
uh, doesn't work very well on the
web funnel just because of like,
b-because of our paid ch- paid channels.
In a graphic-- um, in organic tra-traffic,
uh, free trial could work quite good
because there are, like, users highly
motivated to, uh, to try, try out, try
out the product and they, uh, have a,
like, trust to this product and et cetera.
Uh, in paid traffic, you need to convince
users to, uh, to try your products.
And, um, uh, if you have a free trial,
they can, like, sign up and connect--
even connect a, like, credit card,
but without any fundings, and you
ended up with users, um, uh, that,
like, are not able to, to pay for, for
subscription, to convert to subscription.
And if you send a, um, a signal to
Meta, uh, when they sign up for, for
free trial, if you send this signal
to Meta, Meta start optimizing,
uh, starts optimizing to, to this
audience and, uh, starting, um, uh,
bring more and more people like this.
Yeah, like, uh, like these people.
And, uh, uh, so you, uh, can ended
up with a lot of trials, but, uh,
almost no, uh, subscriptions converted
from this, from these trials.
Uh, but, um, there is another
thing that works way, uh, quite,
quite good in, um, in web funnels.
It's, um, paid trial.
So you, umâ¦
It, it works as a, like, qualification for
users, so you can charge them for, like,
one bucks or three bucks or even, like,
five bucks for one week, uh, paid trial.
And if they can pay, like, uh, five
bucks or even one dollar, uh, it
means that they have a, like, working
credit card, uh, they have funds on
this card, so it's, uh, it's a, it's
a good filter for, for, for audience.
Yeah.
That's
Jacob: and, and so it
makes a lot of sense.
One, y- you, uh, uh, th- there's a cost
to these users, and so you shouldn't beâ¦
Uh, they, they may have different
levels of intent, uh, and so,
so make sure to monetize them.
But also probably more importantly
that you're passing the right signal
back to the ad networks, to Facebook,
to Meta, to whatever, so they can
optimize and find more of those users.
Where on web it's very easy for someone to
put a, a card that has no money, uh, on it
and, and then you're, you're stuck dealing
with that and, and finding more of those
users who don't have money to pay you.
Um, uh, th- this, this
makes a lot of sense.
Um, okay, cool.
So, you know, we, we talked a lot about
the possibilities and, um, positives
of, of kind of web subscription flows.
Like, tell me about some failures.
Tell me about some projects that
have gone wrong that you've seen.
Like, w- when, um, when a
web-to-app project dies, is it the
Andrey Shakhtin: Mmhmm
Jacob: Is it the creative,
the pricing, the users don't
actually go back to the product?
What usually goes wrong?
Andrey Shakhtin: Uh, so yeah, it's,
um, um, I think the main reason why
it, uh, didn't work out for, for
some of the companies is just, uh,
that economics doesn't work for them.
Like, so they, they didn't manage to,
uh, to improve their unit economics.
Uh, so traffic is high, uh, LTV is too low
to, uh, uh, to cover this, uh, this cost.
And sometimes it connects-- it can,
it could be connected with, uh, like,
uh, with experience of the team.
So team is, is not experienced
enough to, um, to test the-- properly
test the creatives, channels, uh,
monetization, and all the things.
The second is, um, uh, product,
uh, is not, like, best fit
for, uh, for web traffic.
Like, for example, it's, it could
be, like, game or utility that,
um, um, implies that user need to
interact with the functionality
before, uh, before a purchase.
Um, or it just could be like, I don't
know, any compliance, uh, reasons.
Uh, so for example, there is, uh,
like, um, verticals, uh, uh, let's
say like house, uh, verticals
that require some specific, um uh,
conditions and terms to operate, uh,
and they can be like, uh, blocked,
uh, by, uh, Meta, for example, and,
uh, they cannot like do advertisement.
Um, then, um, there are some
also, um, few mistakes that, um,
companies usually, um, uh, do.
It's like, um, it's a payment, so
they, uh, don't take care of, um,
risk metrics like chargebacks, uh,
dispute rate, vamp rate, and all
those things, and got blocked by, by
payment, uh, uh, payment providers.
Uh, which means that, for example,
you can scale up to 100, 200K
per month, revenue per month.
You have, uh, um, subscriptions stored
in a payment account, and, uh, this
payment provider can, uh, block you,
which means that you lock all this
revenue, all this recurring revenue in
this, uh, payment, payment account, and
you, uh, cannot do anything with that.
So you, you just lose it.
Yeah, because, because it's-- if a payment
account like blocks, you cannot, uh, uh,
process renewals of the subscriptions.
And, uh, for you, it's like,
um, you, you just like basically
losing, um, recurring revenue.
Um, another mistake is, um, I w-
I would say it's, uh, predictions.
So, uh, paid channels works m-
m- majority cases it's, uh, it's
pr-- uh, works on predictions.
So you have a like, uh, payback not,
not at once, not at the like day zero.
And, uh, in day zero, the benchmark
that you, uh, you can target,
it's like, uh, 40, 60% of ROAS,
returning of, uh, ad spend, yeah.
And, um, um, and payback could be
like three months or six months.
Six months is like the average
benchmark in the market.
So if you, um, uh, calculate it wrong,
yeah, and, uh, if you, uh, made a mistake,
so, uh, you can scale the traffic with
a, with a bad unit econ-economics, and
it, uh, it could, it could kill your, uh,
your, uh, user acquisition and growth.
Jacob: Got it.
Yeah.
So there's a lot of reasons that
things could go wrong a- at, at the
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: of the day.
And so for th- forâ¦
I, I wanna talk through
a fu- a few of these.
I think that, um, know, on theâ¦
starting from the top on the, on
the ad creative side, like if, umâ¦
I think we, we, when we launch new
products, launch new funnels, we have our
creative, we have our funnel, we have our
kind of purchase and monetization rate.
Um, and usually we start, we're,
if we're very good at what we do,
maybe we can start with something
that works on day zero, right?
But, but usually it doesn't, it's not
perfect immediately when we launch.
Like, what isâ¦
How do we estimate the, the
possibility for improvement?
Because, like, things, can things improve?
Okay, we, we have our, we have a,
you know, a poor click-through rate.
Can we double our click-through
rate on our ads for, for our funnel?
Can we, you know, in- increase our,
our kind of, you know, people making
it to the end of onboarding and
starting a trial by what amount?
And, and so do you have any guidance
on like, okay, this is where we're at
today, um, how do we predict if it's
possible to improve what we're doing
enough to get to a place of profitability
and to get to a place of growth?
I, I know that's kind of a broad
question, but maybe we start on like
the ad and the funnel side of like
where do you, um, do you typically
see team, teams start in terms ofâ¦
Let, let's ta- let's talk about ROAS.
Like, okay, we, we, we built V1
and is at today after a month.
Do you think we can get to a place
of improvement or is that going,
"Hey, you need to rethink a lot"?
If it's at 50%, you go, "Hey,
this is probably possible."
Are there any kind of metrics or guidance
you, you give teams that you look at
a funnel and you look at a team that's
launched something new and you can pretty,
you can tell pretty quickly, "Hey, I don't
think you're ever gonna get this to work."
Or some teams launch, you go,
"Oh, that's actually pretty good.
I, I think you're gonna
be able to make it work."
H- How do you think about that
and what guidance do you provide?
Andrey Shakhtin: Okay, yeah,
I, I, I think I got it.
Uh, so the best, uh, the pros--
the best approach here is,
uh, just sync up with market.
You need to, uh, understand
what, what's a benchmark.
And you can, uh, you can check
out, like, our, uh, report.
You can, uh, talk with, uh, like,
similar products on the market.
Uh, uh, like, almost all the, all
the, all the cases, uh, guys can
share something with you, so roughly.
So you can, uh, get a, like, picture
and idea what, uh, how should it work.
And then you need to, like, just, uh,
compare your numbers with benchmark
and, uh, compare your product and,
um, funnels with the, like , with
the competitors or similar products.
So if, if it works for competitor,
it should work for you.
If, if it doesn't work, uh, that you,
uh, do something wrong, and you can just
deconstruct it and, um, break it down,
uh, by the, like, tiny pieces, yeah?
So let's, uh, say for example, we have
a funnel, the whole funnel, and we see
that, like, the ROAS is too low, but we
clearly understand that, like, there is
a, like, different companies, different
products that's scaling and growing
with web funnels on the market, and we
can see it in the art library, we can
see it in, like, we can see the, the,
uh, advertisements and all the stuff.
So we have insights
that it works for them.
And then we can just break it down.
So let's, uh, see the, like, uh,
ad creatives.
What the, like, the ad creative strategy
and, uh, our creatives, our advertisement,
uh, looks similar or not, what, what's,
what's, what works for, for them?
Uh, then funnel.
Uh, does it look like, uh, competitor's
funnel, uh, monetization and paywall
and checkout and all the stuff?
If, uhâ¦
And I, um, I have been getting, like, a
request to review funnel, like, a lot.
Uh, and, uh, I've been reviewing
funnels, like, uh, hundred
funnels within, like, months.
So, um, and the, the, the main, uh,
the, the main step which was, were,
like, um, under hooked in the funnel
is, like, the, uh, paywall and checkout.
And even, like, the team, like, told me
that, like, we, we, we built a funnel.
It, it looks amazing.
It looks good.
Uh, we don't understand why,
why, why it, it doesn't work.
Um, I check it and, uh, the
first thing that I check it's,
uh, paywall and checkout.
So it's, uh, it's, uh, um, the main thing.
So, and s- this is, like, the, the, the
step where, uh, a lot of, uh, mistakes,
uh, uh, teams do, uh, usually, yeah.
And, and of course at creative.
So it's, uh, sometimes it's, uh,
majority of cases it's, like, just
not enough test, uh, experiments of
creatives.
Uh, not like, uh, they don't have,
like, a process for experimenting,
uh, or, uh, setting up the, the
campaigns and all those things.
Yeah.
Jacob: Yeah.
Got it.
So
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah.
Jacob: with the benchmarks,
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: what other people are doing for
each stages, but, but also for your
categories and industry and, um, to, to
figure out where your, where the gaps are.
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: break things down by stage.
Are you getting enough people
from ad click into the funnel?
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah, yeah.
So
Jacob: but no one's purchasing.
All right.
Well, where's, where people
were, are people dropping off?
out, uh, okay, usually you're saying
that, the, the funnel is not as crazy
hard to figure out, but usually the
paywall or checkout pages is where
people make mistakes and, and, and then
ultimately this is what matters, right?
If people aren't buying,
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah.
Jacob: if they're getting
through the funnel, uh, if
Andrey Shakhtin: Mmhmm
Jacob: purchasing anything.
Uh, a- a- and this is kind of the, that
critical step to, to optimize is, umâ¦
let's get into some, s- I
think this is a good segue.
Let's get into some tactical advice
on, like, how to construct that
offer, how to construct the paywall.
I, Iâ¦
First, um, you, you mentioned
a few times, like, the, the,
problem with trials on web.
Is, is the core problem with offering
a trial on web is the, the, the
chargeback or people adding funds
without cards and then, and then sending
the wrong signal to, uh, um, uh, Meta?
Is that the proâ¦
Or, or are there other issues
with offering trials on web?
Andrey Shakhtin: Uh, no, I wouldn't
say it's, uh, it's, uh, um, most
frequent, um, problem in a web funnel
because, uh, um, anyway, like the t--
uh, teams, uh, uh, get inspired of,
uh, like, uh, current working funnels
and, uh, not a lot of funnels like with
a, with a f-f-free trial right now.
Um, yeah, I would say like, um,
the main, um, like weak point on
a, on a web, uh, paywall is, uh,
usually it's like lack of value.
So sometimes it-- I, I, I think it's
also connected to, uh, and related
to, um, uh, app paywall as well.
So, um, we, uh, we can see a lot of
examples when, um, uh, paywall says
like unlock all features, and that's it.
But
Jacob: What does
Andrey Shakhtin: it'sâ¦
What
does
what does it mean?
Yeah.
In, uh, in web, web funnels usually
like it's, um, they, they build in, in
form of quiz with a lot of questions.
Sometimes it could be like from
twenty to one hundred screens, and
you have a lot of, uh, information,
a lot of data about users.
What, uhâ¦
because they, they, they answered
all these questions, so you need--
you, you, you can personalize offer,
uh, based on these, uh, answers.
And the best, um, paywall
is, uh, structured like this.
So it's, um, uh, title with, uh, uh,
connected with value, and the value just
represents the, like the expected result
that user can achieve with your product.
Uh, you can lose weight by this date.
This it.
Or you, you can, uh, uh, like improve
your English, uh, up to C1, uh,
level, yeah, within like six months.
This is a value.
This is, uh, what, uh, people, um,
came for, uh, to, to this product.
And then you, uh, after that, you need
to, uh, it's better to, to have a, aâ¦
it's not necessarily, but it's better to
have a, a visualization of this value.
So it could be like graph, it could be,
uh, before, after, uh, some kind of like,
uh, visualization of
this, uh, achievement.
And then you, um You can add like, uh,
add FOMO, uh, effects for, to the paywall.
This is like the, this is
time-limited offer and, uh, et cetera.
So there are a lot of, uh, timers,
uh, or promo codes that, uh, this
discount applied only, uh, for like
15 minutes or something like this.
And then you, uh, you show the pricing.
This is like the, the, the
pattern and the best practices
for, uh, structuring a paywall.
And then
Jacob: great.
Andrey Shakhtin: yeah, and after
that, you, you can, uh, show the like
additional information about, um,
um, reviews and, uh, cancellation
policy, uh, and all these things.
So it works theâ¦
Just consider web paywall and a web
funnel as a, as a separate landing page.
You, you place, uh, the main
information, uh, at the top for
users who are already convinced.
They can just easily, uh, click
button and purchase with- without
any like additional friction.
For, uh, users who are on the fence and,
and, uh, still, uh, doubt if they need
to proceed or not, you can scrollâ¦
they can scroll the, uh, paywall and,
uh, see the information about, uh,
reviews from, from, uh, from current
users, uh, you know, con- uh, refund
policy and all these things, and then
decide to, to, to, to, to proceed.
So it's exactly like,
like, mm, landing page.
Jacob: Yeah.
I think it's funny because, you
know, all these people came from the
app world and they go, "Oh, how do
I c- how do I build a web paywall?"
It's like, no, you were in, if you were
in marketing for before kind of apps
and o- on web products and e-commerce,
it's like, no, it's a landing page.
It's all the same principles,
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: values.
It, it's kind of
Andrey Shakhtin: yeah.
Yeah
Jacob: what is old is new again
and it's like, it's not aâ¦
Well, it's, you know, we call it
something different, but at the end of
the day it's a landing page to convert
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: and so it, it's, it's funny.
But I think o- one point you had w-
was really good around kind of that
title, the, the value providing, but
also adding on that time specificity
or specific value where like,
this is classic marketing, right?
Feat- uh, benefits over features.
No one cares about your features.
They want the benefit.
They want the
Andrey Shakhtin: Mmhmm
Jacob: the more specific you
can make it, it's also better.
When are they gonna get it?
Areâ¦
People want things fast.
People want to know they g- they're gonna
achieve this goal, achieve this mountain.
And, and so that value combined with
that specificity of value I think is a
really powerful thing that people should
be doing more across app paywalls,
web paywalls, a- anywhere really.
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: Yeah.
Uh, so, so one, um, one other thing
that we touched on a little bit is
this, uh, uh, the one-month intro
offer has become super popular.
I've seen this a lot.
Um, a- and, you know, oftentimes
it's okay, g- maybe it's a dollar
for the first month, maybe it's $9.99
for the first month.
A little sneakily sometimes,
then it increases in value.
It goes from $9.99
a month to $29.99
a quarter or, or something like that.
But yeah, tell me, tell me about
what you see with th- these, uh, like
first month or quarter intro offers.
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah.
Um, the, uh, the more I work, uh, with
the web funnels and web monetization,
the more I see, um, like similarity
with, uh, telecom, um, monetization.
So it's mostly connected.
It's, like, similar to what we had
in telecom, like, with, uh, these
discounts for the first three months
or for first month, and then, uh,
you will be charged for full price.
Yeah, it works, uh, um, like this.
So, um, you can have a intro offer
for different, even for different,
uh, uh, subscription plans.
So it could be, like, one month,
three months, uh, and one week,
for example, subscriptions.
And they, uh, all have, uh, mm,
includes like, uh, includes, uh,
intro offer, which means that the
first, uh, billing period will be with
discount, and after the first billing,
uh, period, uh, you charge, uh, will
be charged, uh, fully for full price.
Uh, for, so for one month subscription,
you will pay, like, fifty percent, uh,
uh, less, uh, for the first month and full
price from, starting from the month two.
Uh, and for, uh, quarterly subscription,
you will pay, like, three months
full with discount and, uh, the full
price after, after three months.
That is how it works.
It's, um, a little bit like, um,
gray, uh, let's say that, gray,
okay, since dark patterns, yeah.
Uh, but, uh, unfortunately, it
works like this, uh, everywhere, so.
Uh, and, um, yeah, uh, not all people,
uh, understands these terms, of course.
Uh, and they, uh, like understand it
like, okay, it's a discount for the,
the whole period and sign up for that
or just, uh, wanted to, um, cancel
that after the intro period and just
forget for some reason to, to cancel.
Jacob: Yeah.
And, and so let's, yeah, let's talk
a little bit about kind of refunds
and, uh, um, you know, what to
expect in terms of support cases.
You talked before about how, you know,
this is ⦠If you're, if you haven't
done web subscriptions before, this can
be a real pain to manage, something new.
Um, what are all the different, um,
chargebacks, refunds, uh, uh, things
you have to be thinking about now
o- o- on the, the web payment side?
Andrey Shakhtin: Uh, so, uh, how it works?
W- w- that's the question, uh
Jacob: Uh, how it works, like what
are, what are the things like I need
to be tracking or the metrics I need
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah.
Jacob: to,
Andrey Shakhtin: Okay
Jacob: be tracking to understand?
Like let's say I'm, I've, I've
never done web payments before.
Andrey Shakhtin: Mmhmm
Jacob: give me like the, the
101 course on, on what to
Andrey Shakhtin: Okay.
Jacob: and what to be
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah.
All right.
Yeah, so this is, uh, two things.
Uh, the first thing is, uh, refund.
This is, uh, um, when your user, um,
tries to, uh, get money back and,
uh, they can, um, contact support,
for example, and, uh, say, "Okay, I,
um, purchased mis-- uh, by mistake.
Please, uh, um, uh, refund, uh, my
money," and you can issue a refund.
It doesn't hurt any, any how your merchant
account, your payment account, you can
do, um, uh, refunds easily, uh, how
many refunds, uh, as, as, as you wish.
It's, uh, likeâ¦
And refunds is a good, um, lever for
growth and for, for, for balancing,
uh, your economics as well.
So for example, if you, um, have a, like,
bad reviews in, uh, app stores or that
they, they can say that, "Okay, I tried to
ask about refund, and, uh, they refused.
They declined the refund."
And, uh, you-- if you need to,
uh, improve the situation, you can
issue more refunds and, uh, easily.
If you struggle to grow in terms
of revenue, and you can, um, have
a more, uh, strong, uh, refund,
uh, policy, more strict and,
uh, um, save more, more revenue.
So it's, it's the, theâ¦
You, you can balance it.
Yeah.
There's another thing,
is, uh, chargebacks.
It's a really, really bad thing because,
uh, in chargebacks is a thing that, uhâ¦
There is-- okay, there is
a dispute and chargeback.
And, uh, when a user failed to
receive a, a refund, uh, or for
example they cannot find how to
connect you, how, uh, what's the word?
Uh, support, uh, or somehow
they wasn't able, like, to, to,
to con-- to, to contact you.
They can go to their, their bank
and, um, just, uh, claim, uh, a
dispute and dispute transaction.
So it's, "I'm not, I not
agree with this transaction.
I can-- I want to dispute it because
it's, uh, it's, um, uh, was not clear
pricing or it was fraudulent transaction.
Uh, I, uh, didn't authorize this
transaction," and all this stuff.
What happens, uh, next?
Bank, uh, issue an alert
in the, uh, payment system.
So, uh, payment system, Visa and
MasterCard, they, they can see that
there's, like, the claim raised in the
bank, but it's not recognized yet, so
it's not registered, it's not validated.
And we, uh, can see, and some
third-party services can see this
notification, and, uh, we can
refund this transaction immediately
once we receive this notification.
Yeah, and, um, the bank can, uh, consider
this, uh, claim within, like, two, three
days or even, like, up to one week.
And, uh, when they consider that,
uh, they can see that, like, this
transaction is already refunded and, uh,
no reason for, uh, registering dispute.
And the chargebacks, um, uh, never happen
If we fail to refund that, bank can
register the chargeback, uh, dispute and,
uh, so they can understand that, okay,
it's, uh, there's a claim, it's valid.
There's, uh, also, uh, there's like
indeed can be, uh, dispute about this
transaction, and this dispute, uh,
is registered in, uh, payment system.
Payment system provided, uh, passes this,
uh, passes, uh, to payment providers.
And, uh, uh, you can see this dispute,
for example, in your Stripe account,
where you can, like, answer to the
dispute, uh, dispute the dispute.
Yeah, you can, uh, provide the proof
that, uh, the, the transaction is valid,
that, for example, user already uses,
uh, used the product and tried the
product and, uh, uh, receives the value
and, uh, the transaction is, uh, should
be, uh, in place, so should be valid.
You can, you can win this dispute,
but, uh, and, uh, which means that
you don't need to, um, refund it.
So it's chargeback.
When you refund the
dispute, it's chargeback.
Uh, but you will be charged, uh, dispute
fee by payment, uh, payment systems
and the, uh, the worst thing that you--
uh, this dispute will be calculated in
statistics and analytics, and there is,
like, thresholds in the payment system.
Visa and MasterCard and, uh, all
payment providers, uh, monitor them.
It's a dispute rate and, uh,
uh, now it's, uh, new parameter.
It's, uh, uh, VAMP.
It's, uh, uh, fraud rate.
Jacob: right?
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah, fraud rate.
Yeah.
So for example, it's, it's, uh, dispute
rate is like, uh, how many disputes,
uh, registered, uh, divided by n-number
of transactions and, uh, uh, fraud rate
is like how many of the disputes, uh,
marked as, uh, fraudulent transactions.
So it's, uh, when, when, when you
say like, "I didn't authorize this,
uh, transaction," it's fraudulent.
Yeah.
And so, uh, all these things can,
can hurt you very, very, very much
because, uh, if you, uh, hit the
threshold of a dispute rate or VAMP
rate, uh, you can get blocked by a
payment account and lose all recurring
revenue that we mentioned before.
And, um, to avoid that, you need to,
uh, apply, uh, different strategies.
The first thing you need to do at the
very beginning, you need to integrate,
uh, chargeback prevention, uh, services.
There's services that, uh, listen to,
uh, to this notification from banks and
automatically refund the transaction.
Yeah, you do refunds.
Uh,
it's, uh, like, um uh, hurts your
growth and, uh, revenue, but at least
you, uh, you can, like, re-remove
the risk of, uh, of getting blocked.
Um, and the second thing that you
need to do is, uh, um, you can remove
the dependency from, uh, payment
provider, storing, uh, payment data.
It's like data of a credit card or Apple
Pay token, uh, stuff, and subscription
data outside of the payment provider.
So it's like external billing solution.
Uh, and the b- with external billing
solution, if-- even if you, uh, have
a, like, problem with risk metrics and
the exact payment provider and, uh,
your payment pro-provider blocked you,
you, uh, won't lose, like, uh, all
subscriptions and, uh, recurring revenue
because you can just connect another
payment provider and start, uh, uh,
keep, keep, keep, uh, charging the, the
subscription and renewal transactions.
So yeah, this is
the two strategy.
The first, uh, uh, chargeback prevention
services and, uh, removing dependency,
uh, storing subscription payment
data in external billing solution.
Yeah, it helps, um, uh, it-- I
think it's, uh, must-have thing
right now if you start scaling.
If you scale, uh, more than like,
uh, two, three hundred, uh, uh,
revenue per month, uh, it makes
sense to, uh, to take care of that.
Yeah.
Jacob: Yeah.
That's, this is that.
That is an amazing breakdown.
I, I think that's, uh,
I learned a lot there.
I, I didn't know kind of all the
intricacies of the chargeback and,
and kind of, uh, uh, notifications
to, you know, Visa and MasterCard,
and then that we, we don't have to get
into all of this as well, but there's
also the, you know, European entities
charging US customers and US, uh, uh,
payment processors kind of flagging
this as, you know, riskier as well.
And, and, and so there's, there's
so much nuance a- and, and when
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: you're getting started in the
web subscription side, if you come
from the, the app side, that Apple
and Google just handle it all for you.
It's just done.
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah, yeah.
Jacob: a- and, and so
it's, it's, uh, it'sâ¦
There's huge benefits,
but, you know, don'tâ¦
Y- make sure you understand,
uh, actually what is happening
and, and any, uh, uh, potential
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah.
Jacob: you need to manage.
Andrey Shakhtin: So yeah, basically,
uh, we are building now solution, uh,
so app developers can have like payment,
payment infas-infrastructure similar
to what they have in, in app store.
So no hassle with all this stuff.
Yeah.
Thing.
And yeah, yeah, and of course, to, to, uh,
to reduce the risk of, uh, like, uh, this,
uh, getting blocks and, uh, chargebacks,
of course, you need to have a clear
monetization, so the, the-- it's, uh, as,
as, as much as you can, of course, because
it's, as I mentioned, it's always balance.
Yeah.
You, you have some aggressive
thing in monetization.
Uh, the more, the more the things that
the more, uh, risk that you, uh, get
more chargebacks in dispute rates.
And, uh, just one thing that, like, uh,
I would recommend to make sure that you
place, um, the contact information on
the payroll, in the email, welcome mail
also, and in, uh, payment descriptor.
Payment descriptor is, um, is a
thing that you, uh, see in your bank
account in the transaction feed.
Jacob: Yeah
Andrey Shakhtin: So it's like it's
a logo and name of the company
that, uh, charge, uh, charge you.
So for example, uh, if you see in
your bank account, um, the like
transaction, you can, uh, recognize it.
Oh, okay, it's the company or if
even if you, uh, can't recognize it,
you can Google it and find the, the
website and contact the, the support.
So, uh, so, uh, if you simplify this,
uh, way how your user can contact
your support, uh, you can reduce
this, uh, chargeback and, uh, dispute,
uh, prevention very, very, very much
Jacob: This is, yeah, this is great
and semi-counterintuitive, right?
Like, of making refunds easier
for your customers eventually pays
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: long run because you get
less chargebacks and disputes.
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, b-because it's a, it's um,
it's a conversation with the user.
If they can contact you,
you can negotiate the price.
So for example, this
is, uh, like the, umâ¦
I, I think it's a great hack, uh, because
it's, uh, it's simple and so effective.
When a user asks you a refund, just offer
a 50% discount, just partial refund.
Yeah, and
Jacob: them
Andrey Shakhtin: it works very well.
Yeah,
it it it, works very, very well
because, um, sometimes, uh, people
just, uh, not agree with the pricing.
So, and when you, uh, offer a 50% refund,
so 50% discount, uh, value and price just
balanced and for them, and that's it.
So they, uh, get the discount, you,
uh, saved a subscriber, and sa- saves
the revenue, and everybody is happy.
Jacob: Yeah, yeah.
Um, that's, yeah, I, I think that's
really great guidance that, that is, uh,
not obvious for, for a lot of people.
I think there's so much talk around
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: conversion funnel, do this,
here's your paywall, but this is, is a
structural thing you need to get right.
Um, all right, I've got, I've
got a few more questions.
Uh, I wa- I wanna ask about, um,
uh, I think, yeah, two more things.
One, I wanna ask about upsells.
Um, I think that upsells
are, are a big potentialâ¦
How, how do you see upsells working well?
Andrey Shakhtin: Uh, yeah, upsells,
uh, can improve your, uh, LTV by,
uh, 20%, but it should be tested, of
course, uh, carefully because, uh, it--
they can also, um, increase, uh, um,
refund rate and, uh, chargeback rate.
Because when a user, uh, goes through, uh,
the funnel, what the upsell-- they, they
purchase the main subscription, and after
the paywall, you can offer something, uh,
additional, something like complimentary
to your, uh, to your, uh, subscription.
So let's say like it's a fitness
app, and you sell, uh, on a paywall,
you sell, uh, um, subscription for a
workout program, and in addition, you
can upsell a meal plan, for example.
Uh, yeah, and for user, sometimes
it's not obvious that it's like two
different, uh, products and, uh,
different-- and sometimes it could
be like, uh, confusing for users.
And they-- when, when you start
charging them, uh, by two-- for, for two
products, uh, um, they are confused why
it's two transactions and, uh, and it
can increase your, your risk metrics.
But, uh, if you do it, uh,
carefully, uh, and accurately,
so it can improve your, uh, LTV.
So, um, because a user who, uh,
already bought the subscription,
most likely, uh, can bought-- can buy
something, something, uh, additional.
Yeah.
Jacob: Yeah.
Yeah, I think this is
great and this is, this
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah.
Jacob: advice we've gotten from
other people that for the people who
purchased, they have high intent, see
if you can sell them anything else that,
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah
Jacob: valuable.
Um, okay, so, so last question here.
This is the Price Power Podcast.
I have to ask every guest, uh, what's the
biggest pricing or packaging win you've,
you've seen or, or achieved yourself
of changing pricing and packaging?
Andrey Shakhtin: Um, okay,
it's a good question.
Uh, it's definitely, uh,
was, um, hundreds of bucks.
Uh, I don't remember a product.
It, it's, uh, it, it was something
connected with the health.
Probably it's, um, um, supplements
or something like this.
Uh, yeah, and, uh, there are like
some funnels for JVP one, for example,
and, uh, they can have like OTV, uh,
like 80, uh, ei- eight hundred, for
example, uh, five hundreds of, uh,
uh, pricing, so it's, uh, it's huge
Jacob: Yeah.
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah.
Jacob: Yeah, yeah.
Um, cool, cool.
So, um, so I really
appreciate you joining, Andre.
Really appreciate your time here
and, and, and all the insights.
Um, can you give a, um, you know, q- quick
description of FunnelFox for everybody?
And, and, uh, uh, w- w- we will
have links in the show notes as
well for people to go check it out.
But, uh, and then also anything
else you'd, you'd like to promote
Andrey Shakhtin: Uh, yeah, sure.
Yeah.
Um, FunnelFox is, um, uh, number one
platform for web to app because we have,
uh, like, uh, the more sophisticated,
uh, funnel builder that helps you to,
um, uh, to launch, uh, quickly and launch
with, uh, um, higher, uh, conversion
rate and metrics at the very beginning
because we built a lot of expertise
ins-inside this product and, uh, uh,
it's built with, uh, best practices.
Uh, we, uh, also have, uh, like,
uh, payment services, like payment
registration, payment accounts, and,
uh, you can use, uh, all together as a,
like, end-to-end platform from the, uh,
ad creatives to, um, chargebacks, and we,
we, we, we can help with that as well.
Uh, or you can use, uh, different,
uh, parts of this, uh, of
the platform, uh, separately.
So you can, for example, connect,
uh, payments to your, uh, funnel
that you, uh, implement in-house, uh,
or orchestration or, or altogether.
Yeah.
Jacob: Amazing.
Amazing.
So yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll link
to that show notes and, uh, go check
out FunnelFox if you're looking to
build your, build your web funnel.
So yeah, thank you again, Andre.
Uh, uh, tons of amazing insights, uh,
uh, packed into this episode, so I really
appreciate you joining the podcast.
Andrey Shakhtin: Yeah,
thank you very much.
Uh, thank you for good questions.
Jacob: Great.
Good, I'm glad.
Uh, all right, thanks Andre.
Andrey Shakhtin: Thank you.
Jacob: Bye
Andrey Shakhtin: Thank you.
Bye
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